These posts are provided "as-is" with no warranties and confer no rights. Those teams I used to despise as a L60, and only tolerate as a 63? Similarly, the best predictor of your success at the next level is your success at the current level! This makes it very easy to feel underleveled, because the 6 people that started 3 weeks before you might take up the 2 promotion spots available per year for 3 years (numbers all made up).You also, at least in my experience, aren't really given feedback on when you're performing at a level that *could* be promoted. I know many that purposely work for Microsoft as contractors just for this reason. I thought what I did was valuable but in the end, it wasn't.The Microsoft up or out policy is the prime directive. So either keep slapping yourself or choose to wake up. Is there much motivation to really fix Vista's perception problems?Machiavelli might note that intentionally leaving Vista's reputation in the toilet will make Windows 7 look all that much better when it comes out - allowing some of our VP's pride, ego's and bank balances to swell to truly epic proportions. Microsoft, Go to company page I'm there. Can any reader in Corp Sales Excellence(SMS&P) privide guidance on how to grow from 63 to 64 in that group. Never "threaten" to leave or waive external offers in my face unless you're fully prepared to be escorted out of the building that minute. also work is good only when it leads to results that typically means team's success. That sounded like a complete crock to me. . My queries on any specific guidance would get no response or the response that youre a 62 and you should be able to figure it out. But it is also clear that there are places at Microsoft where these skills are not required until higher.I have a 62 test somehow make it to dev with mediocre dev skills, social skills limited to indifference or hostility, who managed to delegate most of the hard work to a smart kid hired to work with him and he made it to 63. So he is looking to become partner this year on the team's work. One of the interesting things about the level structure that I find interesting is that you are always expected to perform higher than your level. You need to consider how you can compete with the pizza eating 25 year olds that don't have a life and work 80 hours a week. Your response is private Was this worth your time? That manager was (in my and many others' opinions) an incompetent, non-technical "manager" who was incapable of recognizing people's talent and contributions. There is a comment about reporting to someone who is the same level as you are. Don't just take a L63+ role because of the level. Good managers: In general, good managers realize that they need to sell their team's accomplishments. Mgmt, MSFT levels: CEO > VP > Partner(Director) > Principal > Sr. Eng > Eng 2 > Eng 1. The "Most Likely Range" represents values that exist within the 25th and 75th percentile of all pay data available for this role. I am happy to be an L63, trying to get to L64 so I can relate.How I got here (I started as an industry hire 61 about 5 years ago):1. Absolutely. I spend a lot of my time these days working with partner teams to help them solve their own problems or create wins for their teams even if it only peripherally touches my area. Is there any way to get to 63 w/o leaving and coming back? Eng, Go to company page Starting to reach out and grab some of what you would be doing with a bigger scope/higher level.An earlier poster said it. Joined MCS at level 60 and was immediately told that L61 would be years away. It sounds trite, but it's true. Experienced Operations & Project Manager with a demonstrated history of working in the financial services industry. And in my experience they are *eager* to get your skills and your lower level payroll expense! My manager and I had a plan to influenc that person and it worked. What's worse is the noise this creates. Level 61 - overseas. You are now 20% closer to promotion just by a day of work :). My experience is a constant melee of *every* single person trying to influence cross-group. However L64 takes some time and L65 is very difficult. Specifically, what did they accomplish, and what contributions do you see them doing to justify their promotion? I am soliciting ideas to reduce cost in this blog. It's probably true that there's more to the story and that they actually have important skills that matter. If you're not an Absolutely! I would love to be above 60much less 63. You are employed by Microsoft's shareholders. What if you and your manager are at the same level L62. Keep my word. To know the real title you have to use headtrax and look for the Standard Title of the position. But above L62 the talent is intense and that is good. Staff Software Engineer, Google Cloud Platforms, Senior Staff Software Engineer, Infrastructure, Principal Engineer, Developer Platform Systems, Senior Software Engineer, Mobile (Android), AR. but I have to disagree with this statement.While it is true that it is difficult for managers to say what *exactly* an employee should do to get to the next level, it *should not* be impossible to list what experiences/qualities/results will qualify him to be a *strong* candidate for promotion to the next level.And this should not be that difficult - it is just a matter of syncing up with the peer leads, and dev manager, and discussing what their perception of an L63 is vs l62. If you want to succeed at Microsoft (or anywhere else where you have a boss), the most important thing you can do is figure out exactly what your management wants from you and then make sure you deliver it in spades.Junior people often make the mistake of thinking this means "I will do my job to the best of my ability" and then they go off and work really REALLY hard at things their management doesn't find nearly as important as they do and so come review time these folks are *shocked* to hear that all of their blood, sweat and tears did not make the impression they'd hoped. Is it easier to level up in smaller groups (v1 product)? Great post. given that the resource is static. While a manager can help coach you, and you can follow the advice in this post and comments (most of which are great, by the way), you have no way of knowing if there are 0 or 10 people also on the team doing the same things, ahead of you for the limited number of promotions available. Amazon Microsoft Corp. engages in the development and support of software, services, devices, and solutions. Your analysis is very true, specially the part about owning the room and be regarded as the domain expert. how to check hall sensor on samsung washer; marriott grande vista grande cove menu; what happened to josh's partner bill on moonshiners; are goldfish crackers good for an upset stomach These two lines really serve to summarize the incoherent blithering that was jcr's post.Whoa, really? A past co-worker of mine had the same thing done to him and now there are two devs doing what he did by himself.I guess Microsoft has its reasons. It is true you can always do that, go to Google, go to ABC, or whatever. If you do not market yourself well, even if you are a superstar here at MSFT, your achievements might just go unrecognized (or they might be selectively recognized). If youve capped out at Level 62 then MS is probably not a great fit for you. "Next, I believe this post will most likely be useful for those who entered MS as intern/college hires. I want to share some of my thoughts about succeeding at Microsoft and reaching Level 63, the Senior contributor level at Microsoft. Given all that, the two things that are key to promotion are:1) Your relationship with your skip level manager. Pull the ripcord. She partners very closely with colleagues to develop and drive the people strategy across the UK GEO. IMHO. Don't discount the power of a mgmt chain that believes in you. Ultimately humans make decisions either by heart or brain. Learning Curves and Disillusioned Learners: psychologists have known for years that skill acquisition tends to follow a typical learning curve. Worked my ass off and finally get recognized as Snr contributor. If you are considering leaving your team (or Microsoft) but think you could be persuaded to stay, be careful about how you present this to your manager. :). Your lead. I think folks like that are the one-offs who slipped by and most likely (given the scrutiny I see more and more) certainly wouldn't slip by today. Will <> reach Level 63 during their career? @No! How accurate is this most likely Total Pay range (base + additional) of $396K-$652K/yr? Does anyone know what the typical salary increase, measured in percentage, is for going from 62 to 63? Of course everyone wants to be promoted every review, so don't bother asking right after your last promotion.What matters most is that you are doing what your manager thinks deserves to get you promoted. then do you know what more you need to do? Skilled in Surfer 8, MS Project, Primavera, Microsoft Excel, Analytical Skills, Customer Service, Customer Success Management, Vendor Management and Sales. Risk and return are related. That is, an S-shaped curve that is relatively flat at the bottom (slow start), then becomes very steep (steep acceleration), then becomes relatively flat again (plateau). What advice do you have to pass on? This way you have a more clear understanding of the seniority of that particular position and if you search for a group manager you will see the seniority distribution. Entry level (4,718) Associate (1,976) Mid-Senior level (40,085) Understand not just what needs to happen, but WHY. The "how" now has broader impact. Additionally, a Level 62 doesn't really have the tools to evaluate and sell a promotion to a 63. "Shock and awe awaits" is correct. abbott diabetes care customer service; sasha obama playing drums; silverstone woodlands camping tips; dagannoth mother osrs; how do i check my reader digest subscription; martin moreno leaves fluffy; abc12 obituaries flint, michigan . right? A mentor helps tremendously. It inspired me to write the following dissertation on the subject in hopes that it will be helpful. My best guess is that you think it should be await. Then, he told those have been canceled. Leadership: pro-active leadership that convinces team members of the future direction and even helps to . "There is no greater de-motivator than a reward system that is perceived to be unfair. Even if you don't leave, make no mistake, I'll be building a backfill slate for your role just in case. Here are some things from my perspective.1. There are the clear execptions and I think you can see this more on the engineering side than sales and marketing.One other piece of advice - be mindful of the impression you make on your bosses peers and others in senior levels of the organizations. Going from Level 62 to Level 63 is more about EQ than IQ. L66 is Principal band. If your boss is saying "Yes, ready for promo now" and your skip is saying "No, not now" well, why? Microsoft Director level role - Level 66 - what should I expect from COMP sideYOE-15Current TC- 235k, Go to company page Don't give up.I'd appreciate it if you'd do a similar post on the 65 to 65 transition. Former is work of many years and long nights and proven track record while later is basically your ability to bullshit through 6 interviews. L6 =64-65. The CSPs are a good attempt to define each level, but anyone who is looking at the CSPs and saying I do that, and that, , but Im not getting promoted is almost certainly missing the point.---I used to work in Devdiv, and I respect Kelly a lot. When I finally figured out how to play well with others and was able to show some major cross-group gains in addition to my own leet prod dev skills, that's when I became a 63.63 to 64 was a bit of a slog -- I'd say more like a full-frontal assault on lazy management, actually :). senior director can be L66 or L67. When I was an IC, it was tough technical problems or simply critical problems that no one else wanted. ceo/vp/director/manager/lead etc. That is the guy to beat. Make sure you have chosen commitments that you can exceed, and that you deliver visible and significant value to your business and customers. Help make it more accurate by, Get started with your Free Employer Profile, average salary for a Senior Director is $170,707 per year in United States, The Ultimate Job Interview Preparation Guide. Next, make sure your manager values your contributions and surpass their expectations, making yourself invaluable and not immediately replaceable. There's a need to ooze authority in a way that is comforting to the person above you responsible for your career. YES, life is unfair.At the end, mastering 'soft skills' will help anyone: even someone at 59. How many has Live hired this year and OneCare gets cut? It's a very rare thing that you'll find a manager who gives you the kind of actionable feedback you need to succeed without doing a whole lot of sleuthing and groundwork of your own to fill in the blanks. Unless you're an asshat, in which case see mini's comment about slapping yourself around and listening to what other's think about you.And in those huge orgs with all the noise it is really easy for folks to rest and *ahem* vest, so you are overlooked by default.The key as mini and others have stated is finding the tech and team you love and everything flows from there (because you will be so excited you will go home and work another 4 hours every night examining customer feedback, competitive products, etc. mini,time to start a new blog: maybe around current economy and msft. These turtles gets promoted eventually just based on time spent at MS and because they werent doing anything wrong even though they dont really meet CSP criteria. Keep your mouth shut most of the time (i.e. I've been at 59 for going on four years now, and was told by my manager over 2 years ago that I was totally ready and qualified for promotion to L60, but that "there wasn't enough budget" (yeah right), and this was in *Office* (a group which is clearly strapped for cash, I guess). The first levels came quickly with some sticking around 64 and 65 (half my career).I have always taken on and fixed problem areas that no one else wants to take on. You can bet that if I went back today I would be a _very_ different person.The only thing I would add is that at any level, you need to not only know that your manager believes you should be promoted and will fight for you, you need to believe that your manager _can make it happen_. Do it nicely. Know Your Worth. You'd do well to read it again:Success in business comes from serving your customers, not about beating your competition. You want to test more cases than he does, you want to build something that draws users to what you're doing more than to his.You're never competing with your manager. If you want to advance and you are not a "favorite underling", your first and most important job is this: figure out how to become a "favorite underling". I think that the whole culture of the stack rank + fighting for scraps for their directs + a lack of visibility and input on what will justify a promotion is what scares of managers from engaging with their employees regarding career growth.Note, that I am not saying that I want a guarantee one way or the other. It's also a well-known fact that there is a disparity in levels between Office and now Sinofsky's Windows and the rest of the company, especially below 65 level.About asking your manager and getting their feedback, we're assuming that managers are capable of giving candid feedback. It varies greatly from manager to skip.The hardest point for me to bear is that I am young, capable of doing so much more, and absolutely dying to do more. However, I think this is the first point where we see a non-trivial number of folks plateau. The Job titles for this position are: Software Development Engineer SDE I've been told HR looks for employees that have been at their level too long. Owning big features, knowledge about code base, ability to help your peers - irrelevant. But it should definitely keep me up in the top of the class, and getting a nice review score + kudos + a job well done with results is a reward in itself (that I crave for more than the actual promotion).I have given this suggestion to Lisa, but I have not seen any action so far. I'm currently level 66 and started at level 59 (equivalent in old levels) 12 years ago. But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work. We have to reduce billions of dollars of cost. weeks to find another position within the company, otherwise they are laid off.Anyone know others? Could somebody please confirm or deny this. You have to be extremely faithful to your management while at the same time carefuly growing your broad influence to your manager's piers. Judson Althoff. Success breeds Success: I remember reading an article about an extensive study to determine the best predictor of a stocks price tomorrow. Show me you can do this and want to learn more and you'll be on my radar as a possibility.6. Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. Doesn't matter 60 or 65, if you find the key to your boss, next level is in your pocket. Find out if you have a positive trajectory in the stack ranking. Good luck with that. You forgot "never ask for a promotion".Forgive my cluelessness, but: Why not?MSS. similar to maybe how EY says senior manager is Director (pwc, kpmg) equivalent. I think your comments on level 63 were interesting. In the case of the latter, make sure you have the goods, because your manager now must show his/her hand on whether s/he values you. The first was the barter (a position exists that I qualify for - give it to me now and I will commit to staying with the team another year. You don't get your money by snatching it out of Google or Apple's hands, you get it by convincing your customers to hand it to you.Do you want to know why Vista is such an unmitigated disaster? (Summarized: Don't ever let your boss be frightened that you'll make him/her look bad. below 63 one has low influence and above 64, it is more strategizing and less execution.Overall, my experience has been that promotion is the effect of results and good work. No managers seems to want to talk to the previous managers for promo stuff and each wants at least 12 mos of time to think to observer. Eng, Go to company page After all, if you think you are already ready, and your manager doesn't, there is probably some way you can improve that you don't understand -- this is something you want to figure out.6. Think Locally: remember three years back when we talked about the book Corporate Confidential? Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple [] The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate cultureThanks for a nice belly laugh to re-energize my morning. My manager told me a while ago that I was about to get one. I'm now off the meds, not seeing the psychiatrist, and living happily.Working at MS was both the best time in my life and the worst time. The person who puts you up for promotion and has promotion conversations with your skip level. Taking the easy escape out like that, you are more likely to get into the same situation at other companies. Will a team that needs exactly the skills and interests that you have pass on you because of some HR guideline? But more likely youre displaying the hallmark of a weak performer described in the article of the same name (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/18/MN73840.DTL). When it comes to where you actually rank and what you get paid that part is all that matters. I was let go from Microsoft recently. I'm interested in reading your perspective and what advice you'd give to someone new to the company looking at a career path similar to your own. There are definitely projects you can work on with your manager to increase your visibility, but if things don't happen right away just keep at it.Your manager should be able to give you fairly specific feedback on where you stand in your skip-level's eyes. This 360 review is confidential and you dont have to share it with your mgr unless you chose to do so. It's not easy. There certainly doesn't seem to be any shortage of people wanting in. Lots of terrible mid level managers at MS. To the person from MCS who said it was easy to get to 64 in MCS - MCSinTheFieldI agree with you there, you can get to a L64 in MCS but try to ever transfer to another org as a L64. The way to succeed here is to find out how you make you, and your manager, and his/her leads, succeed as a team. I am working towards it would say am there 75% of the way. Email@ elliereinker@gmail.com | Call@ 330-554-0249. Will they reach L63? Healthcare is the most common skill found on a senior director resume. For me, it will take some serious job switching to get there. It doesn't matter what you want - you aren't the one deciding when you get promoted. The way to get to a higher level is to increase the scope of your contributions.In our group (somewhere in STB), L63 seems to begin with having at least 2 reports. If the answer is regularly a 'yes', then this clearly is an indication that you are ready. It's hard for L63. I drove my 59-62 agenda with an iron fist and it didn't matter so much that I didn't play well with others or work to help other teams who were struggling.I became a manager during that time and had a year of major hiccups while trying to break through to 63 -- all of a sudden the fact that I was a unilateral force was working *against* me and not for me. The estimated total pay for a Senior Director at Microsoft is $500,742 per year. I know there is always new hope that comes with new leadership, but there is also a restart too. Microsoft Compensation Software Engineer $ 80K $ 225K Average Compensation: $101,338 Senior Cloud Software Engineer $ 90K $ 175K Average Compensation: $128,000 Principal Software Engineer $ 90K. My promotion to 63 came not when I helped my group out of one of their many nightmares but when I helped an uncle. That is the guy to beat. I spend a long time a 61 about 4.5 years mostly because I changed groups alot. the higher you go, the bigger deal this is - at least to where i have gotten.Finally, not everybody will be good in every role. Would they give you the level if you were not already a Microsoft employee? If you're a manager, what's your L63 promotion philosophy? One of my august colleges uses the analogy of a trapeze artist. It turns out that typically your immediate manager has little control, it's all decided at higher levels.